Special List #7: Start With the End in Mind—Blueprinting Success with Dr. Jason Stoner

Dr. Souyias (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Special Lists presented by Referral Lab, the podcast for dentists and dental specialists.

Dr. Seda (00:09):
And we're back with another episode of the special list. Joining me here, as always, my co-hosts Dr. Jason Souyias.

Dr. Souyias (00:20):
Good evening.

Dr. Seda (00:20):
Joining us from Michigan and Dr. Cameron Full joining us from Chicago.

Cameron Full (00:26):
Currently Illinois in, currently in Chicago.

Dr. Seda (00:28):
Currently in Chicago, and we have a very special guest joining us today. Let me just dive right in. Dr. Jason Stoner joining us from

Dr. Stoner (00:40):
Columbus, Ohio,

Dr. Seda (00:41):
Columbus, Ohio.

Dr. Stoner (00:42):
Yes.

Dr. Seda (00:43):
Now, Dr. Jason Stoner is not just any doctor or periodontist, but he's also the most interesting man in dentistry, Dr. Stoner. Dr. Stoner, that's the bio is long and comprehensive. I'm going to pick some bullets here just to help introduce you to our audience and then we can kind of dig into the nitty gritty of it all.

Dr. Stoner (01:09):
Just make me look better than Woodyard. That's all I ask. Okay.

Cameron Full (01:16):
The background did it. He didn't show up with this.

Dr. Seda (01:18):
Yeah. So Dr. Stoner's a clinician and business owner. He's a periodontist, an implantologist having grown to eight comprehensive and interdisciplinary locations over 22 years and reaching financial independence by the age of 48. He holds numerous leadership positions, including being the director and co-director of some periodontology and dental implant organizations locally and nationwide. He's a key opinion leader for the multiple dental focused businesses and clinical president of Gen four. He's a member, and actually, sorry, he's a co-founder of Elite Practice Systems, which is a software company. I'm sure we'll talk about that. He's an innovator and pioneer in bone grafting techniques as well as a pioneer and co-founder of the periodontal practitioner model for dental assisting. We're going to dig into that as well. Author of numerous books, the list goes on and on and on.

Cameron Full (02:26):
Co-founder of Referral Lab.

Dr. Seda (02:28):
Referral lab, yes. And so most importantly, he is.

Dr. Stoner (02:33):
Okay. That's good enough.

Dr. Seda (02:34):
Friend and colleague, welcome to the show. Jason. I know this is going to be interesting and not boring to say the least. How are you today?

Dr. Stoner (02:44):
I'm doing magnificent. I'm doing fabulous as our good, good friend Andy Andrade would say. I'm doing fabulous.

Cameron Full (02:53):
For our listeners and non viewers on YouTube, Jason, Dr. Stoner, sitting in front of a mantle with a bison head behind him and he's got a velvet coat on and a scarf and

Dr. Seda (03:06):
an ascot. An Ascot.

Cameron Full (03:08):
Thank you. He sitting in a gold chair drinking, what are you drinking?

Dr. Seda (03:13):
A gold ostrich skin chair non the less.

Cameron Full (03:16):
What are you drinking right now?

Dr. Stoner (03:17):
Drinking Grey goose.

Cameron Full (03:18):
A martini.

Dr. Souyias (03:18):
Grey goose martini. And wearing a velvet tuxedo jacket, maroon with black lapel.

Dr. Seda (03:26):
Just another Monday for Dr. Stoner.

Cameron Full (03:29):
Just another Monday.

Dr. Seda (03:29):
Listen, Dr. Stoner calls this Monday night.

Dr. Stoner (03:34):
It doesn't matter how good you are, just matters how good you look. You know that I've told you guys that.

Dr. Souyias (03:41):
And damn, you look good, brother.

Dr. Stoner (03:44):
I shaved my head so my black hair would come back because it was getting gray.

Dr. Seda (03:51):
Going for that clean look.

Cameron Full (03:53):
I inspired him.

Dr. Stoner (03:53):
Cameron lied to me.

Cameron Full (03:54):
I inspired him with the buzz. Let's do it Seda. Let's drop this.

Dr. Seda (03:58):
Well, you guys, let's dive in, Stoner. So I mean, before we get into this, I'll speak from my own experience and experiences of some good friends. You have impacted a lot of people in the world of dentistry. I mean not just in the world of dentistry, but specifically in the world of dentistry through various different things that you've developed and mentored over the years. Maybe you just wanted to give us a quick two minute kind of speech about yourself quick. It doesn't need to be long, but just to give people a little bit of flavor of a little bit more serious side of you, what your goals have been and where you're at now.

Dr. Stoner (04:36):
I would say that something unique about me is that I never really started dentistry as a dentist. I started it to be in business and I've had great success with that. And the reason why is that I've had a lot of excellent people like yourselves, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, who have motivated me, empowered me, and have been collaborative in helping me reach goals that I had set. And I say that with all sincerity. And so I like to be collaborative. I like to be someone who helps others when they want it, and I don't believe that anyone should make the mistakes I have. I want them to learn from my mistakes. So the other thing I'd say is that everything I do, I do by reverse engineering and I started my career through reverse engineering. And so we will talk about that tonight.

Dr. Seda (05:46):
Nice. All right. Nice. And one of the things I will say is doing dentistry as a business oftentimes has a negative connotation, right? Medicine, dentistry in general, and you were one of the first people that kind of showed me that it doesn't need to be a negative thing at all, but by doing the right thing, by treating people the right way, by taking good care of people, you can also have a very profitable, fruitful business. And it's a win-win for everyone involved when that's the case. And I know you've shared that mentality and the way you've approached it with many people that I know personally and myself. So yeah, it's So let's dig into it a little bit.

Cameron Full (06:35):
Let's do it.

Dr. Seda (06:36):
Yeah. So Stoner, let's just talk a little bit about why you're different in the way you've approached practice, in terms of the systems you've had, the way you approached patient care, et cetera. In a nutshell, if you were to summarize it quickly, your methods and approach.

Dr. Stoner (06:55):
I would say number one, reverse engineering, starting with the end in mind, and I want to talk tonight beyond dentistry, because these things are things that any business you would take and use, I, I'm fortunate because I stumbled upon great opportunities and I took advantage of them at a young age and that helped me grow. But I did have a pathway and it just really, a lot of it you have to define for yourself what success looks like. And for me it was never about dollars. It's always been about having a great brand and doing the best job I can with patients, and that will take care of everything else. And it has really has, as you guys know how you practice.

Dr. Souyias (07:51):
Dude, if I had to tell you that I think one of your superpowers is, and maybe this comes from the reverse engineering of things, but you think so differently than any other doctor I've ever met. You come up with ideas that most people would think about and go, that's crazy. That'll never work. And you make that shit work. It's unbelievable. And they're great ideas, but most people, where do you come up with that creative thinking?

Dr. Stoner (08:21):
My creative mind makes up for my structured functional mind in things, but I've always been, I've decided this is what I want to do and I find a way to get there.

Dr. Seda (08:45):
Well, given that this is the special list, maybe we just dig into the list in order and get through some of the ideas you're mentioning. So the first thing on your list being the authority, why don't you tell us what you mean by that and why you think that's important?

Dr. Stoner (09:03):
And so I think this is an example of reverse engineering because I would put that at the end. That's the culmination. My end goal is financial independence. I need a team to get there. What sort of barriers get in my way? Who do I have to to be there next to me to be able to raise the ship? And in the end, what do I have to be to make that happen? And when you first start off, you want to be the authority. And that comes from Mark Setter. You guys know I set out to be innovative and collaborative.

(10:02):
So by coming into Columbus and doing procedures people hadn't done before and being less traditional and more state-of-the-art early on, such as allograft tunneling, one was doing it, no one was even using allograft. The second would be allogeneic, bone block, bone grafting. No one had really done that before. And I was doing it in 98 and using the study clubs to give experiences to my friends who I worked with and help grow their practices, which in turn qualified their referrals and qualified 'em. That really made me become an authority. And lastly, I would say the periodontal practitioner model. I pretty much came up with that. I think a lot of offices use it now, and that's using hygienists way differently than what traditionally we would use them by. So they draw blood, they numb, they can do laser if it's in the right state in our state, they can't do it. But in other states they can. They give treatment plans, they collect money, they do everything. And so I think by developing those things and being different, there are some people who just latch onto that and they want to grow like that as well.

Cameron Full (11:39):
Well Stoner you actually, if memory serves me correctly, you actually don't have a full on hygiene program.

Dr. Stoner (11:45):
I don't. In fact, when I joined gen four dental partners, they said, why is your hygiene 0.4% of your production? And I said, because that's not the focus. I mean, we do have a hygiene program, but my goal, and I guess maybe this is part of the innovative thought, my goal was, and I told my dentist regularly, my goal is to get the patients back to you. I'm not there to take your hygiene. I came into Columbus and I interviewed a bunch of dentists before I started. I said, what's the number one thing that keeps you from referring to a periodontist? And they said, we never see our patients again. And I said, well, I'm never doing that. So we do the cleanings up to a year after surgery, and then they're back with the general dentist. And then we do yearly evals, no cleanings. We do yearly evals to make sure the patients don't break down. And that's really our hygiene. It's probing and checking, and if they break down, then we do the work again. And it developed a lot of trust with the referring dentists because they knew they were going to get their patients back.

Cameron Full (13:01):
It's so counterintuitive once you talk it through. And then from a business standpoint, it allows you to not only use those people but that real estate differently.

Dr. Stoner (13:14):
Yes, of course. In the practice.

Dr. Souyias (13:17):
And one of the things you talked about too, about being the expert, the guy I know, mark taught me the same thing, be the person people come to solve problems whether they're to do with dentistry or not. And I learned a lot of that from you, and I learned a lot of that from Mark. And man, that goes to a no end when you can solve problems from the people you work with, it just makes that relationship so much better and so much stronger.

Dr. Stoner (13:45):
It does. And I think in looking at, Mark Setter told me one time, he said, do you know what the difference between a buffalo and a cow is? And I said, no. I said, did he tell you this Jason?

Dr. Souyias (13:59):
No.

Dr. Stoner (13:59):
He said, do you know what the difference is between a cow and a buffalo is? And I said, no. And he said, the difference is when it rains, the cow sits there and gets rained on. They sit down and get rained on, but a bison walks through it, so they spend the least amount of time in the rain. And I knew immediately I was a bison. And I know you guys are bison, and that's why there's that bison right there. I'm serious. I'm serious. That's why it's there because I make it happen. I don't wait for something to happen.

Dr. Souyias (14:38):
One, he told me all time the bison. That's right. The one Setter always told me it was in regards to taxes. It was always, pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Cameron Full (14:51):
Exactly. So let's go back to that comment about the study club. I think that was also something that I've been fortunate.

Dr. Stoner (14:59):
One second

Cameron Full (15:02):
For our listeners, Jason's quickly taken a drink of his cocktail

Dr. Souyias (15:05):
Swig.

Cameron Full (15:07):
I've been fortunate to be a friend of Jason's for almost a decade now, and some of the first practice visits that I did were with him, and I'm grateful he introduced me to the world of Periodontics. And we've had many of fun conversations together and arguments. And actually referral lab itself was built from one of those conversations slash arguments in Bozeman a number of years ago was that I wanted to prove him wrong. And he was damn sure he wanted to be right about the topic, and referral lab was a product of that. But back to the comment that you made about your study club.

Dr. Seda (15:40):
Who ended up being right, by the way?

Cameron Full (15:41):
I was right.

Dr. Stoner (15:44):
I was right.

Cameron Full (15:46):
He's like, I reverse engineered to software. So Jason uses his study club the way it was supposed to be used, which compliments the next point. I think sado, when you work into that, the club itself at its core, by you bringing your friends in, by you teaching them to work together better by fellowshipping, because that's really one of your core tenets, Jason, is you love for everyone to have a good time. It's one of your best characteristics. It's like you just want everyone to be enjoying themselves. And your study club is a representation of that. And the byproduct is referrals, right? It wasn't your goal, right? So say that. What's the next bullet?

Dr. Seda (16:38):
So I'm just going to frame the first topic before we go to the next. Cause I think it's important. We touched on a lot of things and stoner's a unicorn and what we just touched on, I think to summarize, there's three points to it. Cameron, you talked about the study club, right? It's who you're engaging with, your talent and what you can offer and how you engage them and bring them into the fold, gain their trust, and then provide them with something that no one else can provide. The second part of it is the actual product that you're delivering. And Jason, you touched on it, I just want to make sure we drive it home. It's your sense of innovation and vision of bringing things in to the world of dentistry and surgery that not many people, if any, do, and whether that was with the introduction of lasers or the periodontal plastic surgery procedures, you do every part of what you do clinically, and I've seen it firsthand.

(17:41):
I know Souyias and Cameron have too. Everything you do is a different approach than almost anyone else does. And that's by design, right? If you're doing things the same way everyone else is, is who's going to want to join forces with you. But if you're doing it less invasively with technology that makes it easier for you and the patient and your team, then naturally you're going to build followers that will join your study club, will refer patients, et cetera. Then the third part, you've got the study club. You've got the innovation and the techniques. It's the innovation in the business systems in the office, how you're using team members, how they're contributing to procedures and consultations, how you're able to see infinitely more number of patients within the same amount of time than any other practitioner and still maintain a high degree of service, a high degree of quality of the clinical treatments that you're providing.

(18:45):
And I'm not just saying this, I've seen it in action and it should not be glossed over. If we were to summarize what makes Jason a unicorn, it can't be understated. Those three points and how masterful you've been at executing those. And so before we went on, I just wanted to make sure I summarized it and nailed it home because it's very important and sometimes you're a little bit, I know it may be hard to believe for those seeing him on video right now, but Jason's very humble and sometimes he'll gloss over things and I need to make sure we keep him on the rails.

Dr. Souyias (19:23):
Okay,

Dr. Stoner (19:25):
Thank you, Seda.

Dr. Seda (19:26):
Yeah, of course. Leading us to the second point on the list, comprehensive interdisciplinary dentistry as a foundation all is developed from, what do you mean by that, Jason, and what do you want say about that?

Dr. Stoner (19:39):
Okay. When I first came in, I sat down with Fred Sakamoto. He had a Seattle study club, and he said, look, I've got a bunch of members and we need another one of these clubs. And I said, I'm going to do it. So I did, and mine was very different than his, but what I wanted to do was bring in world leaders to talk about what's possible in dentistry because most people were single tooth dentists back then in the early two thousands. And I knew I wanted to be comprehensive. I wanted to sit down with a patient and say, this is your plan, and we're going on a trip and you get to decide if we walk, drive, fly, or to get there. And so I wanted to expose those that were so generous to send me their patients to other possibilities. And so that's what the study club was for.

(20:41):
And it also helped me be better because the goal was always self-development too. And so on the other side of that, it was having a team that had processes that were somewhat mainly foolproof and that the doctor, most offices, the doctor is the center, he's the hub or she is the hub and the spokes are the team members. Well, I just want to be a spoke. I want all of my team members to execute what their job is better than anybody. And so that's a true team, and that creates a culture of accountability and empowers the team, the center, the hub is the patient. And when you have that set up and you're referring, doctors send you patients and they have that experience, they feel very comfortable in that they're referring to the right place and their patients could be treated well. The other part of that is that this is the last point, but the specialists, I did a lot of work with specialists and I found every opportunity to refer to a specialist, oral surgery, orthodontics, whatever it was, I found every opportunity to refer because they practice the same way we do through referrals.

(22:22):
And they understood the process and I learned a ton from them what they can do and how they can add great benefit. Our study club is called Sato, which is a term by Leonard or DaVinci. It's an art term where if you mix a bunch of Hughes together, you get a deeper, richer painting. And that's the idea of mixing in the specialties with general practice and getting a better high quality comprehensive plan.

Dr. Seda (22:52):
And so I know one of the concepts is, as you mentioned, comprehensive diagnosis, not just being myopic and focused on a single problem, but what that does to how patient oral health is addressed. Can you touch on that a little bit more? Because the counter argument to that is there's a finite amount of resources patients have to address any given aspect of their oral health. And sometimes I've heard it stated that patients can be offput by they come in for one problem, now it's brought to their attention that there are three others. How have you developed a method to diffuse that and help people understand that? No, we're not trying to create a laundry list here. We're helping your oral health. It's going to benefit you in the long term. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Dr. Stoner (23:56):
One of the first things I asked them, which is from Paragon Ken Runkel is as a whole, how much dentistry do you think you need? And at some point in there, I slip in a genius statement by Jason, which is, do you think you deserve this Because what's better than your health? It's true. What better thing to spend your money on than your health? And so by creating a plan, by creating a plan where it says, Hey, look, this plan preserves your teeth. You'll need less teeth removed, you'll need less implants, which is way more expensive than this plan is, and you will look better, you'll feel better and you'll be healthier. That's the approach we take here. And are you game for that? And I think one of the critical things for that is that, and I guess how I started thinking about that was patients would come in and see me and say, I want you to refer me to another dentist.

(25:14):
And they had never met me before, but they're saying, I want you to send me to another dentist. I'm like, well, why do you want to see another dentist? And they'd say the number one reason was they didn't like the front desk. The number two reason was that every time they go in there, they need something else. So they need a crowd every time they go in or a filling or something like that. And I said, I want to erase that. I want to make it where you go in get a cleaning and leave. And we do that by being preventive with your treatment and not reactive.

Cameron Full (25:47):
Jason, what's interesting about this conversation as obviously a person that doesn't present any treatment, what's interesting to me is a lot of people talk about doing this, but a lot of people are fearful of doing this. And I am going to ask one question before I go to the next one. My first question is, do you remember where on your timeline you made the commitment to doing this? Was it early?

Dr. Stoner (26:13):
Was right at the beginning.

Cameron Full (26:15):
Okay. So that's super unique. Because most younger clinicians that are trying to grow their book, that are trying to establish their relationships are doing frenectomies.

Dr. Souyias (26:30):
I take what I can get,

Dr. Stoner (26:32):
Take whatever they get,

Cameron Full (26:33):
And they're fearful of doing anything that's not on the referral slip. And they won't call the restorative provider and say, Hey, this, that, and the other thing needs to be addressed too because we're not going to solve the real problem here. And so I just was curious, and I know that Sada and Sue has also practiced this way. When did you guys make the commitment to moving to this approach? Was it early as well? This is obviously what's best for the patient.

Dr. Souyias (27:03):
I mean, I was going to ask the same question of stoner. How do you get those dentists besides the study club, what did you focus on in the study club, but making that commitment? I would say I was probably about five years into my career when I made that choice to come join this practice and say like, oh my God, until your eyes are opened to it, that it's a better way to do things. I don't think it wasn't even on the radar. I mean, you think of comprehensive dentistry, it's just getting the work done that the patient needs, but not really looking at the patient or their mouth as a whole.

Cameron Full (27:43):
I wonder if, and I'm just freewheeling it here right now, I wonder if him not having a hygiene program helped build some of that trust into that approach, more manageable right out of the gate. I'm just curious. It's just an interesting,

Dr. Souyias (27:59):
I think that's highly likely. I mean, like you said, that's one of the most common gripes people have about periodontists is like, oh, I get sent off my patient and they never come back to me because they're in their hygiene practice forever.

Cameron Full (28:14):
Meanwhile, stoner not, probably doesn't have 15 indeed ads up for hygienists right now.

Dr. Stoner (28:19):
They're not going anywhere. Most of my staff have been there for 10, 15, 23 years.

Cameron Full (28:26):
Your clinical team is just steadfast. Yeah. So Seda, how about you?

Dr. Seda (28:31):
So for me, it was an evolution. I think it took confidence in my diagnostic skills. Yeah, a lot of burning sage and chanting around the campfire. Other things, yes. Another things when I adopted either not that cigar either when I adopted the man bun that too.

Cameron Full (28:56):
Ayahuasca God, he's drinking Ayahuasca.

Dr. Seda (28:59):
Yes, yes. But in seriousness,

Dr. Souyias (29:02):
It was a spiritual journey.

Dr. Seda (29:04):
It's an evolution that takes time and confidence in your diagnostic skills, your ability to be the authority with your referring doctors and communicate to them that, look, I see this. We need to handle this. A lot of times I found my partners as well intentioned as they were, didn't have the confidence to speak to their patients in a way that could help them understand that they have a bigger set of problems than just what's hurting right now. And getting everyone to see the picture that way and then be able to communicate it took time. And it's still something that we work every month, every year.

Dr. Stoner (29:42):
Yeah, it's a hard form

Dr. Seda (29:44):
And it's an ongoing thing, but as Jason said, you start with the endpoint in mind and reverse engineer it. So knowing that that's how we want to practice. Everything that we do now aims to achieve that goal. Whether it's using the study club to help people diagnose better, learning different procedures and ways of tackling problems, looking at things comprehensively, it's become part of what we do. So it was something that took years and it is still ongoing.

Dr. Souyias (30:14):
There's a big difference between, and I want to ask you this, Jason. There's a big difference between a dentist coming to a lecture and hearing a great lecture on comprehensive care and then actually making a change in the practice, their practice to move that way.

Cameron Full (30:31):
Great point.

Dr. Souyias (30:32):
What kind of things did you guys do in the study club that drove them to actually make those changes?

Dr. Stoner (30:40):
So what Michael was talking about, I considers branding and I knew what I wanted my brand to be and the way I wanted to practice dentistry would create that brand. And so I went to people early on in the community who were dentists, and I told them, I said, look, I'm starting a study club. It's interdisciplinary in care. It's all about working with a bunch of other people to give a better treatment plan. And I'm going to bring in world-class instructors and lecturers who've done it to show us how to do it, and then we're going to do it. Do you want to be part of the group? And 21 people immediately signed up. The next year it was 40 people. The next year it's 56 people. It got too big.

(31:40):
But what I did was when they sent a patient over, I did what I said I was going to do. I set them back with five implants, not one. And they said, well, I see this is possible and this is better for the patient and they're happy and I get to do more work than I thought. And we built their practices. Many dentists have come to me saying how many X? We've built their practices just by the study club and that, but that's how we did it and the biggest benefits to the patient. And so that's an idea of reverse engineering. We're going to do this now, how are we going to get there? Study club, great team, great team members, and then do what we say we're going to do.

Cameron Full (32:32):
Great segue, Seda.

Dr. Seda (32:34):
Yes. So moving on to the next point on the list. We've got a lot to get to here, Jason. The five bottlenecks to practice growth in every practice.

Dr. Stoner (32:44):
The five bottlenecks and they're in order. This is in every practice. This is in every business really all this is is in every business. But the five bottlenecks specific to dentistry, number one and to specialists is number of referrals. If you're a general practice, I can consider general practice a specialty also. So it's patients, new patients. So what do you have to do to change that bottleneck? You have to market. And then the next is after you market and you get more patients and get patients coming in the door. The next is case acceptance. And you need to get case acceptance so that you can do the work and pay your team and help make people better and help your dentist so that they can do the work they need to do or specialists. The third thing, then once you get those two, yes, you have numbers of referrals coming in.

(33:48):
You have case acceptance optimized. Now you need a schedule template to be able to create capacity to handle that load of patients. And so you have more patients, you have more people saying, yes, you need to build your schedule so you can accommodate it. Once you get that done, you go to case value. And case value is where you really hone your craft by qualifying your dentists and them qualifying you, them teaching you what they do so that you can help them and other specialists that refer to you. And you get higher case value cases and you get into what's called the virtuous loop, which James Woodard referred to, where you're seeing less patients, you're spending more time with less patients, and your production goes up. That's called the virtuous loop. And then lastly, it's okay, you did all that. Now what about the people that didn't commit, those people that didn't commit? How do we, and no one does this better than Michaela. And that is how do we get on the phone and call those patients and invite them back to our practice and get their care complete? And so those are the five bottlenecks. But once you get your team trained and you're just another spoke and the patient is the hub, then that works very well and you've broken through those bottlenecks.

Dr. Seda (35:20):
Nice. So I mean there's a lot to unpack.

Cameron Full (35:23):
I'm feeling kind of left out. I don't get a shout out yet.

Dr. Seda (35:25):
You're so needy, Cameron. So needy,

Dr. Stoner (35:29):
I haven't gotten to you yet. We're building don't worry.

Dr. Souyias (35:32):
Yeah, we're building saving the best for last.

Dr. Seda (35:35):
Well, Jason, I want to double click on one of those five points.

Dr. Stoner (35:39):
Yes.

Dr. Seda (35:39):
Can you talk a little bit about some of the innovations and tactics you've implemented to expand your capacity to be able to see the same number of or even more patients in the same amount of time? There's only seven to eight hours in a working day. What have you done? What are some of the things that you've looked at, studied and implemented?

Dr. Stoner (36:03):
So it started off with APC Accelerated Practice Concepts coming into my office, which we use a bunch of their stuff still to this day, but we brought them into the practice in 2004. I opened in 2002, and Maryanne Spear, the consultant, said to me, how long does it take you to do a crown length? And I said, it takes me an hour. And she said, you can do that in half the time. And I said, there's no way. I said, I'm going home at night. I'm falling asleep at eight o'clock and I'm producing $5,000 a day. And she said, you can do way better. You can do much faster as well and do it just as well. And I said, so she said, I'm going to make it 40 minutes. So she cut my time to 40 minutes. And then I realized you'll do it in the time given. And especially the better your team is, the faster you'll do it. And if you incorporate anesthesia into it anesthetists and such, you're going to really do it fast.

Dr. Seda (37:13):
Okay, so first bullet point is looking at how much time per procedure and optimizing that.

Dr. Stoner (37:18):
Pick your procedures, your seven most common procedures, and write out a time block of how long it takes to do it. And so your team knows it's a crown lengthening and it's functional crown lengthening on number 30. That's this much time they put it in the schedule. Then we assigned something called HPPs to that, which are highly productive points. Highly productive points were one point is worth a single implant. So at that point it might've been $1,500, and my goal was eight HPPs a day. If it was less than an implant, if it was less than $1,500, it was zero. And so you always get your eight HPPs, but you're also doing a bunch of procedures that don't count towards. So in the end, you produced way more than you thought you would than you planned for. And so once that happened, we got very busy because we had overcome the first two bottlenecks, which are referrals and case acceptance. And so then we started time blocking.

Dr. Seda (38:33):
And Jason, I'm going to go back to that second part real quick and not to interrupt you. Another way of looking at that, correct me if I'm wrong, some people look at that in terms of a daily goal. What's their production goal for the day? HPPs daily goal. Yes. So now you've got a daily goal and you're hitting it, but now patients are waiting four months to get into your schedule. The schedule is so full. So the next step would be to,

Dr. Stoner (38:57):
So the eight HPPs at $1,500 each would be $12,000 a day, right? So once that is achieved and you're booking way out, you have to evolve your schedule. It's an evolution. And so what happens is we start time blocking and time blocking is shown to be 44% more productive than just a regular, than just putting things wherever they would fit. Time blocking is okay. From seven to one, I only do surgery from one to three. I do consults and from three to three 30 I do post-ops and a surgery can go in any of those three time spots. A consult can go in a consult time spot or a post-op time spot, but cannot go in a surgery time spot. And a post-op can only go in a post-op spot. And

Dr. Seda (40:02):
So setting some rules,

Dr. Stoner (40:03):
Right? Setting rules and framework to go from and then you pick the procedures you want to do and you build that.

Dr. Seda (40:11):
Okay, we've got about five minutes, so I want to make sure we maximize this here. Your bullet point number four on the list. Essential players in your financial succ.ess. I know you touched on this earlier

Dr. Stoner (40:23):
From a team perspective, you need a banker. And very early on, I put this team together when I was 35. So I got a banker, his cell phone number was in my cell phone. It's a smaller community bank, easy access. I don't have to wait 60 days to get an answer to anything. We were great friends. That's John Smiley who was at Prospect Bank. Now he's at First Bank of Central Ohio. He's still my banker this far out. The next is a lawyer and a lawyer that will protect you but is willing to take advantage of some opportunities. But the accountants, the next one, that's Nick from HHH for me, Nick Debar Mayo, and he's been my accountant for about 20 years. And he's your best friend. He's a lifelong relationship. He knows you, he knows your practice, he knows what's best. He knows your family, he knows your goals.

(41:26):
I share all of my goals with him. The next is wealth managers. For me it's Corian and Lito and Hamilton, and I've had a bunch along the way, but you outgrow those. They change over time and you go to different ones. But what that does, what they do is they help you stay on track with that end goal of financial independence. And they work with all the other guys I just mentioned and ladies, so that you achieve those goals and you're protected if something were to happen to you through estate planning and such. Lastly, our consultants, and that's where I put Cameron because I would say my biggest push towards being a super efficient practice and doing things the best I can do them. And what made the most sense was with Cameron once he came into my life in 2017, even though he said, I don't know if I'm going to take you as a client. Then about 30 minutes later he said, okay, I'll take you as a client. So all I had to do, all I had to do was get out my trusty acts and say, Cameron, I think we're going to work together. So anyway, but that's what Referral Lab did for me and what Cameron's done for me because we've worked together, but he's in this brilliant mind that thinks of all these avenues that we have to cover, and that's made the last seven years of my career incredible.

Dr. Seda (43:16):
We didn't even get a chance to touch on Referral Lab. Do you want to just, I know it's one of the things you wanted to touch on. Yeah. Real quick.

Dr. Stoner (43:23):
I just think for people that want to follow this pathway where you're like, Hey, look, I don't want to work harder. I want to work smarter. I want to get to a point where I can work two days a week if I want to and not even think about it. Or I want to work five days a week and still not even think about it. Whatever it is. And if your dedications to your family or whatever legacy, it might be a charity, it might be a church, whatever it is, if you want to follow that pathway, the quickest thing that's going to get you there is referral lab. And I mean, yes, I'm a co-founder in it, but I'll tell you, we've worked so hard, all of us, to make a program that not only spits out numbers to you, but gives you an action plan to act on those numbers so that you're not laying at awake at night with your can't sleep.

(44:30):
So I think all of you, I'm extremely indebted to, and I'm so fortunate to have met all the people in my career, you guys especially who've helped me get this martini and this cigar and this velvet coat and joking aside, but you've helped me really enjoy what I do and focus me. And so I'm grateful to all of you very much. And I have to yell out, I have to make a shout out to Andrews Scatsgill because he was my assistant and then he went to dental school and he's built an incredible practice and he's been someone thats really taught.

Dr. Seda (45:23):
I didn't know he was your assistant. He was literally your dental assistant.

Dr. Stoner (45:28):
He was my dental assistant.

Dr. Souyias (45:29):
He's such a good dentist too.

Dr. Stoner (45:30):
For about a year before he went into dental school. So he goes into dental school and he knows a lot of stuff and he's just killed it.

Cameron Full (45:40):
I didn't know that.

Dr. Stoner (45:40):
He's done an amazing job. But everybody that's supported me in the practice, I'm very fortunate for that. And I hope all of everyone listening can share that joy and can share that feeling because it's amazing.

Cameron Full (45:56):
I think that as we close out here, I think that what's unique about what Stoner just said is I think that he exemplifies enjoying what he does and that stoner appreciate the kind words, but really, man, you really enjoy what you do and you want everyone to enjoy what they do around you too. And what comes from that energy is projects like referral lab. It is the study club that grows just because you're doing the right thing. It's a referral program that supersedes anything you could have thought of. But I think at the core of that is a true appreciation for the work that you're doing and how you're bringing your service to others, whether it's gum surgery or banking or whatever the hell you're doing. You can have that same enjoyment in your work. And so what a good episode. What a good episode.

Dr. Seda (46:51):
Well, Jason, so much.

Dr. Souyias (46:51):
Great episode.

Dr. Seda (46:52):
Jason, if there was a mic, a microphone in your hand, I would say you could drop it. Now. Drop.

Dr. Stoner (46:58):
I'll drop my cigar.

Dr. Seda (47:02):
Here we are, Jason, you've done it all.

Dr. Souyias (47:06):
The most interesting man.

Dr. Seda (47:06):
Doctor, father, friend. Interesting. All around.

Dr. Souyias (47:13):
Inspiration.

Dr. Seda (47:13):
Inspiration, inspiration. Absolutely.

Dr. Stoner (47:15):
I appreciate, appreciate that. Thank you

Dr. Seda (47:17):
All. Thank you for joining us.

Dr. Stoner (47:19):
Thank you for the opportunity. It's been, I wish everybody luck out there. Dentistry is the best job in the world, so hope you enjoy it. Thank you.

Dr. Souyias (47:26):
Thanks for listening to The Special Lists presented by Referral Lab, the podcast for dentists and dental specialists featuring a special list from a specialist. Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com with two Ls. Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage, and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io.